Roads go ever ever on,
Over rock and under tree,
By caves where never sun has shone,
By streams that never find the sea;
Over snow by winter sown,
And through the merry flowers of June,
Over grass and over stone,
And under mountains in the moon.
Roads go ever ever on,
Under cloud and under star.
Yet feet that wandering have gone
Turn at last to home afar.
Eyes that fire and sword have seen,
And horror in the halls of stone
Look at last on meadows green,
And trees and hills they long have known.
The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with eager feet,
Until it joins some larger way,
Where many paths and errands meet.
The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with weary feet,
Until it joins some larger way,
Where many paths and errands meet.
And whither then? I cannot say.
The Road goes ever on and on
Out from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone.
Let others follow, if they can!
Let them a journey new begin.
But I at last with weary feet
Will turn towards the lighted inn,
My evening-rest and sleep to meet.
Still 'round the corner there may wait
A new road or secret gate;
And though I oft have passed them by,
A day will come at last when I
Shall take the hidden paths that run
West of the Moon, East of the Sun.
@Kyle: I ran this a while back and had a good time. It's interesting you mention making tough choices. My players were able to do everything just in time, with a group of five. This was pretty tricky though, because you're just in between the scale-up between four and six players. One of the players was rather annoyed about that and felt it wasn't fair.
I do think it's an interesting point; scenarios like this, with a mechanic based around X people doing Y (searching rooms), should maybe also include some scaling for parties of 5 people.
Doing everything is a possibility, but remember the time tracking...it is up to the GM to put the pressure on the players by assigning appropriate "time frames" to the players discussing plans in the facility and other conversations they have. In short...the GM determines the difficulty of the achieve everything option, as he knows his players best and how the tracking of time makes sense for his group.
As for scaling for 5 people, I think that little extra challenge is always good for the players to face...but I can see your logic in the scaling of scenarios such as this.
Thanks to everyone who has GM'ed and played this adventure!
Second, as much credit, if not more, needs to go to Mr. Compton on this scenario.
Third. One of the main goals of this scenario is to force the players to make hard choices outside of combat. Do they risk getting caught for more information? Do they take x items? Which room is more important to research first?
While it is possible to solve everything and achieve everything, having that edge of difficulty where you are required to make those tough choices will make this scenario more memorable then an easy sweep of getting everything without a challenge.
Fourth.
Thank you for feedback and thoughts on this! It will only help improve things and make them better.
Fifth and finally.
Review the scenario! Reviewing it here is great, but reviewing it officially on the webstore is even more important! ;)
You'll want to get in touch with Stewart Fleming and his groups he has been running in the Missoula area, including MisCon and the several game clubs/groups that support it.
I just need to vent. I just spent six hours climbing a stupid tower just to have the GM repeatedly screw up the final combat and kill my PC. He obviously hadn't read the adventure. The enemies came back to life, because he was wrong about how many hit points they had, in the middle of a battle, after several people had taken their turns and moved around. Another medium sized creature walked over the square that set the tower to falling, but he only made it fall when I walked over it. The guy next to me fell too. I rolled a 14, he rolled an 18. After being informed that my character was dead I asked what the DC was. The GM said 15. I'm not sure how to protect others from his incompetence in the future. I'm pretty upset about losing a character in the sixth hour of what was supposed to be a four hour game, and in fishy circumstances.
I have no idea what to do next. I suppose I need to make a new character because I signed up to play next week already. Is there some way of getting a GM decertified? I don't think he is a bad player or person, but is completely incompetent as a GM and I will walk away if I ever get assigned to his table again.
Hey Gregory
Thanks for taking the time to speak up about this. It helps us, the organizers of your local games, know how to improve our region.
Let me introduce myself, I'm Kyle! One of your local Venture Captains. If you have problems you don't feel your store coordinator can handle, I'm the next step in the ladder to issue resolution.
It looks like my fella Pinstriped has already got you on his radar and is aware and able to make sure your next game experience is improved.
I believe you got caught in the crossfire of us community building...let me explain that statement.
One of the most important things for any community to survive, is new people joining. That's you! Your first experiences with us are super important. It is our "handshake", so to say. We only get a few games to convince most people to stick around, so we try to keep our level of GM awesomeness high at low level tables, just for this reason alone.
However...our second priority, is getting new players to become new GM's. This is where your experience occurred I believe. In that process for that GM.
So...please allow us continued chances to show you our awesome as a community. Pinstriped's beard alone can weave tales of such heroic baldric, that I worry for the unshaven who tread the trials he trepidates.
It is my truest and humblest pleasure to finally be able to properly announce, and by way of doing so thank and heap praise, upon a long overdue and much earned promotion.
I remember the first game I ever ran for this individual. A family of circus trained halfings, and their human daughter, escorting a pack of VIP Goblins across the land. Oh the hijinks, the shenanigans, and the laughs were a plenty...and I knew then that this family was going to be a great story to watch grow and be shared in our community.
Tony Lindman has since then helped organize, coordinate, stop me from doing dumb things, and help me get crazy ideas done, countless times in the past 2 years. His leadership and continued support has allowed us to expand the puget sound to the size it is today. Everyday of the week, a game is running. Every convention within distance, PFS is at, and every store that we have volunteers for, a game is run in.
Tony Lindman has been holding down the duties of a full fledged Venture Captain for some time, and this promotion is just a change in shirt color for the Patriarch of the Flutterfoot clan.
I'll let Tony introduce his new appointees to VL, but to say the least...I owe Tony so much more then a heartfelt thank you and a handshake.
Tony...thank you. The floor is yours. Keep on make believin'!
I'll be at the AFK tavern at or near the start of the event, head over to the hotel for the VC meeting, then kick it at the pool till it is pass out time.
I played this scenario the other day and liked it a lot. Though we were a party of mostly martials, the one rogue and the one war priest we had were enough to make the difference in finding enough of the texts and befriending the Guardian, though it didn't seem like we had done all that well at the time. We didn't encounter the Lion Guard as we befriended the Guardian, but the rogue set off the trap trying a disable device and we had a terrible time defeating the foo lion and foo dog. It was a 1st level barbarian that finally did the job there.
One question though. In the mission briefing, we were asked to steal nothing from the library. Therefore, my lawful good character insisted that we take nothing, including the Lion Shield, though the scenario clearly permits that. If the Lion Shield is to be a treasure item, there should be some way of distinguishing it so that lawful good characters won't be so insistent on leaving it.
Hey Pink Dragon.
First off, thanks for playing the scenario.
Second, thanks for taking the time to come post about it here.
Third...
Movie plot spoiler:
The Guardian will ask the PCs to retrieve a suitable vessel, if they convince him to be helpful. This makes his exit a request of a sentient creature, and open to the choices and interpretations of the pcs. It can create a morale dilemma, but hopefully not an alignment argument.
As for the foo creatures...they can be avoided by solving the riddle of the 4 plaques. To do this, the pcs have 6 hints.
1. The carving on the floor in the first hallway, dc20 perception check gets you "Our monarchs virtues are our own."
2. In the classroom, the plaque on the painting of the prince says "in order to serve Taldor, I must first learn the history of Taldor."
3. In the recital hall "persevere, persevere, persevere!"
4. In the caretakers quarters "in the end loyalty is its own reward."
5. In the administrators office "a cunning lie is never told twice."
6. The 6 lion statutes lined up in the last room, with 4 "steps" for them to be placed.
In each clue the order and statue is mentioned. I recommend you only describe the statues and not what they represent, let the pcs figure that part out.
This is how you CAN avoid the foo animal fight instead of a rogue disable device check.
Get yourself another registration on it, but I can tell you we will be at ECCC running demos of the RPG and the card game from noon to 7 pm friday and saturday, and noon to close on sunday.
The game area stays open later then that, but my GM's will stay on a volunteer basis after 7 pm. I expect there to be some who stick around, as last year we found most folks made it to the gaming area when the main hall closed. We will be planning on that happening again.
We will be there before noon as well, but are not expecting to run too many games in the morning, as folks who come that early try to start standing in line for the GoH's they wish to meet.
You can email me at 6SSamurai@gmail.com in regards to volunteering and more information on PFS at ECCC.
Just ran this for the first time (second time ever GMing PFS), and my players had a blast. Went to the main library as the first room and promptly swept it clean, gaining all 3 Taldan Ciphers in one fell swoop. One PC then spent an hour poring over the message, trying every permutation possible - except applying the rule in reverse. In the post-game wrap up he realised his error, but took it in good humour (although he would have really liked the Codebreaker boon).
In fact, no-one got any boons - each missed out by the narrowest of narrow margins. Still, full gold and PP, and everyone had a good time.
Almost did it without a combat, but they ignored the positioning data on the portrait legends and released the foo dogs. And they were just removing their illusion cards when Tobias came back to tell them to pack up. Skin of their shiny white teeth!
Gotta say, the foo dog encounter was less than stellar. 8 hardness and DR 5 means people were doing 13 damage with nothing to show for it. Having both those qualities on a single creature means that 1-2s are in a fair amount of trouble, since no-one will have an adamantine mace handy. When savvy players crunch the numbers and find they can only contribute on a crit, it deflates the enjoyment of the combat somewhat.
All in all though, they had a great time, and I did to. There's far more here than your typical hack-and-slash.
Thanks for the report and feedback on the scenario Stephen!
I think that it is awesome the players had a ton of fun and came so close to each of the riddles and ciphers. That was by far the hardest balancing act in the scenario, was to make them challenging enough without going off the deep end.
As for the foo dogs...I can understand the frustration from the players. My goal with the final encounter was to have a fight last more then 2 to 3 rounds, and then the Foo animal template was pointed out to me. From there it was an easy choice as to what animal it would be.
My question to you would be, did you feel the Foo animal encounter was a challenging fight for the group more then a demoralizing one? AND what was your party make up in terms of damage? Was it a mostly all physical damage group, or were there some spell damaging casters?
Ran this today with 6 players, one pregen (monk). It was awesome. Two people had linguistics so they destroyed basically all the searching checks. They came really close to missing the secret door to rooms 11 and 12, but at the last minute went back and searched each room again.
Only combat was the book swarm. They actually made the perception to see the books moving, but then used a card catalog clue and saw they were missing a text in the room, so they opened the last shelf and wound up fighting the books.
The Guardian was a lot of fun because they immediately started touching and poking it while searching around it. They could not quite make the diplomacy to get the Guardian helpful even though I was really liberal with the RP bonuses to the checks, so they didn't get the intelligent item in the end, which is a shame, but they succeeded at everything else.
The cipher worked out well, after they figured out that you had to apply the rule backwards they got it really fast.
Lots of fun because they were willing to RP with the Guardian and caretaker. One of my new favorites to run.
Thanks Saint Caleth!
I can see The Guardian's reaction now..."Madam, could you kindly put that finger elsewhere other then my eye!" ;p
So this is a good adventure, and leaves a lot more creativity to those whom may have had a bad taste in their mouths post-The Disappeared. But I come from a realm where too many puzzles can lead to a frustrated table. So it took a lick from that. But otherwise I am content with this adventure. It also would have made a great Silver Crusade mission more than Cheliax. But that's just me.
Well done Master Kyle, looking forward to another adventure from you soon.
Thanks for the feedback Lady Ophelia!
First off let me say that The Disappeared was an awesome inspiration for me in this endeavor. Second, I must point out that Compton was a HUGE help in this endeavor, and his name is also on the scenario to reflect the amount of work he contributed to this scenario.
The puzzle thing is tricky...it is a tool to use in place of combats to "fill" that time of entertainment. Since puzzles rely upon player ingenuity, complimented by character ability to provide hints, it is an exact opposite expectation as combat...and therefore a MAJOR detour from what most people expect when they enter a PFS scenario. By creating a stealth style scenario that can be run with either fighting or skipping the fights, it was necessary to consider how to fill the players time should they successfully skip all the fights, but more so...make sure the scenario doesn't run long by including more fights and assuming the players will skip some, only to find out that they spent 7 hours slugging it out with all of the possible encounters.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't...unless...
You have some more insight for me to analyze? Perhaps, more feedback?!?!?!? MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...feedba ck...
And thank you :) Make sure to send some praise Compton's way as well ;p
Ran this, main complaints were A. the cipher was to hard for the players (which has been echoed in this thread a few times now) even when i told them which one to use, and B lack of serious encounters. They managed to avoid them. Figured out the statues and just avoided the book swarm, which you can do and still get most of the scenario conditions.
Hey Neferphras
Thanks for taking the time to write in this thread! I am always looking for specific feedback on this scenario, it is how we improve the shared campaign we all enjoy.
My hope was that there could be a scenario in which, if the PCs wanted to and prepared for their objective, they could avoid a fight entirely. With that objective in mind, what would you like to see done differently? The more specific you are the better :)
I'm running this over the weekend at a Convention. One question on the Chelaxian mission - there's nothing that really calls it out (I didn't even notice it on my first read-through). Should I just remind Cheliax players to re-read their season 5 goal? Any thoughts on how to alert them to "be on the lookout" for faction points?
I would do as you suggest, and point out to them that a library of this nature may hold tomes valuable to Zarta.
I've checked with several others, some VO's and some not, and it appears that we currently cannot review products.
This has been the case for the last 3 weeks now, and I've checked again with several others again to see if the problem has persisted for them, which it has.
Please let me know if I need to provide QA'd style replication steps.
I did not have a party of subtle characters. Resulting in assault on a blind old lady and choking her into unconsciousness, blown covers and other headaches.
1) Are the statues named? My party had a hard time associating a statue with a virtue. I just hope I didn't miss that they were named.
2) It seems a leap of logic to figure out the paintings = the keys to the vault. Is there a way to make it a bit clearer to players who aren't big Taldor/Golarion lore fans.
3) I STRONGLY recommend reading The Dagger of Trust if you have time, to get a handle on Lion Blades.
4) Continuing my 'something goes wrong with my prep curse' I lost one of the cypher cards. Guess which one? Fortunately i had it in my prep notes and gave the player the sheet.
5) Am I the only one who took a sadistic glee in watching a player furiously try to decypher the message, using the wrong cypher?
Hey Matthew
The statues are not "named" in the scenario, but if they are confused I would consider giving them a knowledge or check of some sort to give them hints and clues to help them figure it out.
As for the paintings...it's a possible shortcut to avoid a fight. I wouldn't call it a "key". For my table I use crude drawings of each painting with the writing on them as props to show case that riddle.
Thanks for giving the scenario a shot! Both in GMing and in playing.
First off let me apologize for letting you guys down. I'm glad to hear you support the concept of this scenario, and have constructive feedback on how to improve the next style of this scenario in the future for PFS. Truly, that is the most I could ask of anyone.
I would like to make a couple of recommendations to any other GM's who run this in the future. If there is a party that starts kicking down the door, I would have Glorymane engage the PC's in conversation. More like a teacher scolding a child for scuffing up their nice new doors.
As for the row of secret doors...that is a very valid point. I should of caught that.
I'll make the same offer to your group as I did to the previous posters. I'll gladly fly to your local region to run this for you. Not that this is saying you "ran it wrong", but just to see how your group did it and as a way to improve my adventure design from here on forward.
Thanks for the feedback, it is what drives writers to improve.
Stay tuned to our possible runnings in the Renton/Tukwila region. We are trying to find a location now that is gamer friendly for games during the week.
Thanks for jumping in here and providing feedback. I'm all in for any and all types of feedback.
First off let me say that this scenario will allow PC's to smash and grab style if they want. Run in, get to the "back rooms" and take the information they are looking for...but you are correct, you cannot achieve every aspect of this scenario through combat.
Many of the secondary success conditions and the faction missions require a non-combat based approach. Searching for the items are very skill based checks, ones that can be repeated and aided through actions that your GM identify as appropriate or clever.
For both you and DMfrank, I will gladly run this scenario. Either over the internet, or if that doesn't work, I'll fly to each of your hometowns and run it there...either as an event during the week or at a nearby convention y'all will be attending. I'll gladly run it for your entire table a second time, including the GM, just to experience the same situations you are talking about here so I can know them first hand to improve any scenarios I may (or may not) write in the future.
That is awesome you suggets and support it that much. Just seeing you say this kinda stuff makes you the type of person I want to play with.
From what I was to understand from the scenario as it was presented to me. Was that there was a list of skills to use and no others. Also untrained skills could not be used. Because I said anyone can use craft untrained so I will try that(a+2 vs -2 for perception), and I was told no only trained skills can be used. That made it felt like to add to the scenario you needed take specific skills.
I assumed that what the scenario had written, since that was what was told to me. I just hate the idea of people not having those skills not getting to partipate in the scenario. Again for my character I could have left the table and not rolled a single die and helped as much as I did trying to provide reasons to...
Hmmm, I see a major disconnect.
Skills can be used in the scenario as per the rules for trained vs. untrained skills in the core rule book.
Also, this excerpt from the beginning of the scenario may have been missed by the GM. It read as follows:
Each researching PC can attempt a Linguistics, Knowledge (history), or text-based Craft or Profession check (such as Profession [librarian] or Craft [bookbinding]) to find texts. A PC might use a different skill or ability albeit with a penalty ranging from –2 to –5 at your discretion. Several areas also identify additional skill check options that PCs may use without penalty. PCs who use magic or class abilities in a particularly creative or relevant way might receive up to a +5 bonus on a check at your discretion. Except where noted, the skill check DC is 14 (DC 18 for Subtier 4–5).
An example might be the wizard using detect magic to help find any books that might be magical...I would give that player a +1 to his search checks.
We had our "not able to read" barbarian search by looking for "specific pictures" of demons and paladiny type folk. He received a penalty on some checks, and a bonus on others.
This scenario in the skill checks of it all allow and outline alot of GM control and decision making to bend the scenario to the party at hand.
I'd like to see two double-length scenarios in the new arc. Take 'em from 12th to 14th.
As in two double-length scenarios and two single-length? Just two double-length scenarios and nothing else? It's already pretty difficult for me to get through the whole story in one marathon weekend!
When Big K ran it for us I think we broke the 40 hour mark over a long weekend--or at least I have over 40 hours of audio recordings of it!
While I agree it is not detailed explaingin their opinion. It is constructive. Someone saying that hate this scenario shows there is animosity towards it. Now just because someone is unable to provide a reason why they do not like somehting does not mean they should not speak.
I dumped wisdom. But I was told I NEEDED a rank to help. Now I know someone will say "Thats what you get for dumpign wisdom." My statement still stands you should never not allow someone to contribute because of their build.
TOZ: hrrmm maybe our dm misunderstood it.
Hey DMFrank and Finlanderboy!
Thanks for jumping in here and providing feedback. I'm all in for any and all types of feedback.
First off let me say that this scenario will allow PC's to smash and grab style if they want. Run in, get to the "back rooms" and take the information they are looking for...but you are correct, you cannot achieve every aspect of this scenario through combat.
Many of the secondary success conditions and the faction missions require a non-combat based approach. Searching for the items are very skill based checks, ones that can be repeated and aided through actions that your GM identify as appropriate or clever.
For both you and DMfrank, I will gladly run this scenario. Either over the internet, or if that doesn't work, I'll fly to each of your hometowns and run it there...either as an event during the week or at a nearby convention y'all will be attending. I'll gladly run it for your entire table a second time, including the GM, just to experience the same situations you are talking about here so I can know them first hand to improve any scenarios I may (or may not) write in the future.
The PC's can still get 15 deception points, JUST BARELY, if they do everything else perfect and end up fighting the lion blades at the end.
What has me really stumped, though, is the prospect of the PCs dealing with the Lion Blades peacefully, and thus having to either give up the letter or spend 5 Prestige, as well as all the books they have recovered, being more detrimental to their mission than just killing the Lion Blades.
Here, dealing with them peacefully costs the PCs three of the six possible secondary goals (avoid alerting them, avoid giving away Eutropia's letter, recover three Shining Crusade texts), on top of costing the PCs their Primary Success Condition (no texts, no Prestige Point), while fighting them costs them only two of the six goals (avoid alerting them, avoid combat with them) and they still can achieve the Primary Success Condition.
Doesn't that sound strange to you, too? Am I missing something?
-Matt
From how I am reading it in the section describing the Lion Blade possible encounter, if the PCs negotiate their way out of it (A very difficult proposition) the Lion Blades have no mention of searching the PCs in this event.
It only mentions they will search the PCs if they turn over the letter.
In terms of sounding strange...
You can have the party spend 5 prestige each to avoid giving away the letter, keeping that as a possible victory condition to keep. You can use the potions of invisibility they are given at the beginning to "escape" them, and thus avoid the combat.
There is also the option of "Ummmm.......RUN!" and the PCs could end up splitting up to escape being caught red handed as a group.
There are plenty of options not covered in the text as to how the players can get past the Lion Blades or avoid that combat all together, but in general I think the primary situations are covered. The hard part with any "caper" style scenario is providing the GM planned options for the most likely decisions the players will make.
Knowing the depth of my local player base...there is no way one scenario could cover EVERY single outcome they could come up with.
Just bought and read this this morning, and there is one big question that I need to ask...
Okay, so the scenario says that if the PCs are captured by the Lion Blades, they can either give up Eutropia's letter or be imprisoned, after which they spend five prestige and are then released.
What about if the PCs kill the Lion Blades but leave Tobias and/or Ilyana alive? What happens then?
-Matt
Nothing should change for Iliyana's notes about her deception points in this circumstance.
The only way for the Lion Blades to be alerted is by Tobias. If the PC's fight the Lion Blades at the end, then they are not awarded the 3 points from Tobias's entry on deception points. However...they may still earn the 1 point if they attempted to hide their way finders.
The PC's can still get 15 deception points, JUST BARELY, if they do everything else perfect and end up fighting the lion blades at the end.
When the mission briefing said "ZOMG YOU MIGHT BE FACING A RUNELORD!" I bought my ninja, with UMD +18, a scroll of anti magic shell. Thought it might come in handy. After Krune did all his big nasty tricks...I moved next to him and used the scroll. Needless to say...his life got much worse after that. I retired the ninja on this scenario...because after you kill a runelord, what else can you do to top it?
