Orders From the Gate GM Discussion Thread


GM Discussion

Grand Lodge

I really like this scenario, particularly how well organized all of it is. That said, I have several questions about how a few things work:

1) During the scree climb, does a single 60 foot length of rope grant the +5 bonus to all characters, or is it per character? If the former, do the Hellknights get this bonus as well? Does the survival check to reduce the DC by 5 apply to the Hellknight rolls as well?

2) In the Search for Tracks portion of Battles and Bindings, the DC "increases" from 25 in the 5-6 tier to 20 in the 8-9 tier. Either the 5-6 is meant to be DC 15, or the 8-9 is meant to be 30. Give the other DCs in the scenario, the general difficulty of tracking a horde of orcs through mud, and the tier, I think the former makes more sense.

3) To clarify about the open sin-carved orcs, they only detonate if someone (including suicidal orcs) actually reads them, right? Just seeing isn't sufficient to pop the orc? Otherwise this encounter is basically 72d6 of force damage that can't really be avoided, saved against, or survived.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5 ***** Venture-Captain, United Kingdom—England—Coventry

Just a question on the chronicle, how much is

this item:
the visage of the broodlord
as there are two different prices on the chronicle.

Scarab Sages 4/5

There are two versions of that item. The normal one and the Greater one. The additional effect of the Greater version is detailed in the description of the item (It's a higher level version of the spell effect).

I played this yesterday and enjoyed it. We were a little pressed for time due to a late start, so I think the GM downplayed some of the roleplay. We also had a 7-player table, so that meant less time for each person anyway. But it seemed to be a well put together scenario and it was definitely a lot of fun.

Mort - For your #2, isn't another possibility that the DCs were reversed? So DC 20 in 5-6 and DC 25 in 8-9?

4/5 5/55/55/55/5 ***** Venture-Captain, United Kingdom—England—Coventry

Furious Thune

Visage of the Broodlord:
9,600 gp in descriptive text, 8,000 gp, limit 1 in the sub-tier text

Greater Visage of the Broodlord:
16,670 gp in text, 14,000 gp, limit 1 in the sub-tier text

Scarab Sages 4/5

I see what you're talking about now. The answer is in the Visage of the Broodlord boon.

Visage of the Broodlord:
You may purchase the item for the discounted price of 8,000 gp (or 14,000 gp for the greater version).

So both are technically correct, but most likely the cheaper price is what the character would actually have to pay. The price listed in the item's description is the normal price. The price listed under the subtiers is the price with the adjustment from the boon.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5 ***** Venture-Captain, United Kingdom—England—Coventry

Thanks - it would help if I could read :-)

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Cool scenario. Particularily like the "trigger warning" and the Hellknight sidebar.

Oh crap. "Karva" means "hair" and "rulla" means "roll" in Finnish. Time for some atrocious fantasy pronunciations!

Not that I can fit this in a 4 hour slot or anything. Gonna have to keep the descriptions and extra roleplay to minimun.

Scarab Sages 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Captain, Isles—Online

we ran just under 5 hours online

4/5

Muser wrote:

Cool scenario. Particularily like the "trigger warning" and the Hellknight sidebar.

Oh crap. "Karva" means "hair" and "rulla" means "roll" in Finnish. Time for some atrocious fantasy pronunciations!

Not that I can fit this in a 4 hour slot or anything. Gonna have to keep the descriptions and extra roleplay to minimun.

When I played this it took about 4 hours I believe, including a break to hit the frozen yogurt store next to the game shop.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Well, that's encouraging to hear. Running this at RopeCon 2016 and my slot is right before The Sky Key Solution which I really don't wanna miss.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

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Really like this one. I mean REALLY liked it. It's a great scenario with some really neat mechanics, a story, and good interactions. Aside from my feelings about trigger warnings, I like that the scenario outlines that it is PG-13 rather than PG. That is a good addition IMHO. Even if this scenario hardly meets a PG-13 rating compared to previous.

I really liked that the mission briefing was, "we don't know what we're sending you into because they didn't tell us". It's much better than hemming and hawing about the real reasons you're flying in blind.

One major, MAJOR criticism though. Not one, but TWO enormous custom maps. Enormous maps already a bit of a headache when prepping. But to have them as an either/or is absolutely outrageous. Are they fun and interesting maps? Sure - but this is the kind of thing where we really REALLY should be relying on a map pack or flip mat.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

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MisterSlanky wrote:
One major, MAJOR criticism though. Not one, but TWO enormous custom maps. Enormous maps already a bit of a headache when prepping. But to have them as an either/or is absolutely outrageous. Are they fun and interesting maps? Sure - but this is the kind of thing where we really REALLY should be relying on a map pack or flip mat.

Seconded. I bought the bigger blank flip-mat this week, and I still needed to get creative as the maps were even bigger than that.

Dark Archive 5/5 5/5

MisterSlanky wrote:

Really like this one. I mean REALLY liked it. It's a great scenario with some really neat mechanics, a story, and good interactions. Aside from my feelings about trigger warnings, I like that the scenario outlines that it is PG-13 rather than PG. That is a good addition IMHO. Even if this scenario hardly meets a PG-13 rating compared to previous.

I really liked that the mission briefing was, "we don't know what we're sending you into because they didn't tell us". It's much better than hemming and hawing about the real reasons you're flying in blind.

One major, MAJOR criticism though. Not one, but TWO enormous custom maps. Enormous maps already a bit of a headache when prepping. But to have them as an either/or is absolutely outrageous. Are they fun and interesting maps? Sure - but this is the kind of thing where we really REALLY should be relying on a map pack or flip mat.

The two custom maps are each something like 34"x40" if not bigger. As the person who printed out the maps Mr Slanky is using, I can tell you each custom map required twelve sheets of tabloid size (11x17) paper. Twelve.

The box Canyon map you can draw but the temple map is a must need print. Let's please not do this in the future.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

jon dehning wrote:
The two custom maps are each something like 34"x40" if not bigger. As the person who printed out the maps Mr Slanky is using, I can tell you each custom map required twelve sheets of tabloid size (11x17) paper. Twelve.

I normally print off my own maps (at considerable personal expense that I feel is very much 'worth it'). I do not have a tray capable of handling 11x17. This same print-job for me would have been probably 18 pages. That's more than I've had to do for some of the early specials (before we went to packs). That's just nuts.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

I had the pleasure of printing/laminating etc. each of those giant maps twice for an upcoming event. Fortunately, we will be running this one 2 tables at time, doing those maps twice was more than enough.

I seriously doubt, the map even fits one of the bigger flip mats unless you cut of corners.

Having to prep two separate complicated final encounters.... not a huge fan of it. Mammoths had something similar, but those used flip mats and didn't use such a huge number of enemies.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm quite happy about a few things in this scenario:

1) The sidebar with details on how to better RP the Hellknights. It gives me enough to go off of to really dive in there.

2) The clear explanation of how the environmental effects combine.

3) Guidance on how to easily run the hellknights in battle.

However, I do have to say that I'm a bit unsure of how I'm going to be handling the largest maps. I'm thinking about converting them into ten-foot squares or using multiple sheets of the grid paper I use to draw out the map. That being said, I do like that the default was to give the map to us in 5-foot squares; it makes it easier to understand that scope.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

I just predraw(with some liberties, like with cutting one 3rd off that ridiculous Mammoths gravesite map) everything I can on flipmats. Printing pages and pages of countryside sounds crazy.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

Here's an odd one. Low tier the first orc attack lists an orc sergeant as one of the attackers. His tactics state he fires a bow. The question is, his stat block doesn't list one. I wound up just emergency statting him with one,but he's pretty terrible with anything ranged.

Was this intentional?

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

Just a few thoughts/questions that came to mind while giving this scenario a read-through:

1) It looks like it's assumed that battles between the hellknights and their foes can be run via narration; there's no need to put them on the map. Is anyone planning to put loads of hellknights/cythnigots/etc. on the map?

2) For encounter B, where do the PCs start on the map?

3) Are the sin-carving runes in common, orc, or (magically) understandable to all?

4) There are rules for intentionally triggering the explosive runes, but once they've seen one orc explode, is it assumed that PCs can choose to avoid reading an orc's runes (e.g. if in melee combat next to a fragile pillar)?

5) In encounter D, does the slightly fractured ground on the map in the east wing have any significance? I can't see any.

6) Olgrahk is described as being by the altar in the north wing, but the map key has him in the centre/east wing. Which is correct?

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

The graven guardians should have bleed 2 and rest eternal removed from their special attacks, as these are from the standard bestiary statblock based around Death and Repose guardian domains, which have been replaced by Air and Weather in this case.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

1) My plan is to put them on the map in order to better represent the action in the player's minds.

4) I would honestly use the rules for averting a gaze if the PCs want to avoid reading the runes.

5) I think this falls under guide's rules about environmental effects. I know I'm going to treat it as difficult terrain.

Grand Lodge

Matt Lewis wrote:

Just a few thoughts/questions that came to mind while giving this scenario a read-through:

1) It looks like it's assumed that battles between the hellknights and their foes can be run via narration; there's no need to put them on the map. Is anyone planning to put loads of hellknights/cythnigots/etc. on the map?

2) For encounter B, where do the PCs start on the map?

3) Are the sin-carving runes in common, orc, or (magically) understandable to all?

4) There are rules for intentionally triggering the explosive runes, but once they've seen one orc explode, is it assumed that PCs can choose to avoid reading an orc's runes (e.g. if in melee combat next to a fragile pillar)?

5) In encounter D, does the slightly fractured ground on the map in the east wing have any significance? I can't see any.

6) Olgrahk is described as being by the altar in the north wing, but the map key has him in the centre/east wing. Which is correct?

1. One of my roommates has a pretty sweet mini collection, including a ton of Hellknights and orcs. I brought 50 minis with me, and I think the sense of atmosphere was improved by it. That said, you by no means actually need them.

2. Yeah, I have no idea where they're meant to start. I started with the Hellknights in the NW corner battling a horde of 'off-screen' orcs, while they PCs stood back to back with them fending off the ones on-screen. I had the 6 coward orcs flee into the small cave area in the NE corner. It worked pretty well, though the orcs are a bit too spread out for my tastes.

3. Because there is no Linguistics DC or languages-known barrier specified, I think it is most sensible to assume they are in common. Furthermore, were they in Orc it would grant PCs an unintended advantage in that they would not be able to trigger the runes. My thought is that the original creator of the wand spoke common, and it has sense gone through a few hands, namely the Strix and It-That-Peels-Flesh.

4. PCs are never forced to read the open runes (hidden runes require the check to avoid). If they ask what the runes say, have them roll the Perception check and see what happens as if they were intentionally triggering them.

The reason the open runes are dangerous is because Orcs stay up until they hit -CON, so while the little dudes only have 6 HP, a PC needs to do 18 damage or the Orc reads his own sins. Most GMs run that speaking aloud can be done as a free or at least immediate action, so an Orc can potentially do this at any time.

5. I don't think so.

6. I wondered about that too, but I wound up running the other encounter.

Silver Crusade 5/5

Matt Lewis wrote:

Just a few thoughts/questions that came to mind while giving this scenario a read-through:

1) It looks like it's assumed that battles between the hellknights and their foes can be run via narration; there's no need to put them on the map. Is anyone planning to put loads of hellknights/cythnigots/etc. on the map?

2) For encounter B, where do the PCs start on the map?

3) Are the sin-carving runes in common, orc, or (magically) understandable to all?

4) There are rules for intentionally triggering the explosive runes, but once they've seen one orc explode, is it assumed that PCs can choose to avoid reading an orc's runes (e.g. if in melee combat next to a fragile pillar)?

5) In encounter D, does the slightly fractured ground on the map in the east wing have any significance? I can't see any.

6) Olgrahk is described as being by the altar in the north wing, but the map key has him in the centre/east wing. Which is correct?

1) I hadn't thought of doing hat but it's an awesome idea that I'm totally using.

2) I'm thinking I'm going to put the PC's at the southern area of the map.

3) Since the runes are magical in nature I'm going to say anybody is going to be able to read them.

4) I'm going to run it like this; in combat they're going to have to intentionally trigger the runes since it seems like it's going to be pretty hard to accidentally read something. Out of combat it's probably going to be automatic unless the PC's come up with a clever way to bypass them.

5) I don't think so, I couldn't see anything about it.

6) I'm going to go with the Altar, but I think either would work equally well.

Silver Crusade 5/5

Revisiting this, there is a concrete answer for two.

2) On page 13, right before the beginning of the stat blocks, it says that the Hellknights' encounter takes place just off the southern edge of the map. So, I'm going to let the PC's set themselves up however they want in the bottom five or six rows at the bottom of the map.

Scarab Sages 5/5

I have a question about the Chronicle in the Core Campaign:

Spoiler:
Hellknight's Respect wrote:
You set aside your initial Pathfinder mission to help the Hellknights of the Order of the Gate defeat a great force of chaos and evil. In recognition of your deeds, the Hellknights assist you in joining their ranks, or in refocusing your training if you are already a member of a Hellknight order. You may cross this boon off your Chronicle sheet to retrain levels into the Hellknight prestige class (Pathfinder Campaign Setting: The Inner Sea World Guide 278) or the Hellknight signifer prestige class (Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Paths of Prestige 28), for free so long as you would qualify for the prestige classes with the levels that you have taken in other classes. Specifically, the levels you take before the prestige class must qualify you for the prestige class, so you could not retrain a character into a Hellknight 8 with no other class levels. You may also freely retrain as many feats and skill ranks as is necessary in order to qualify for the prestige class. If you already have one or more levels in the Hellknight or Hellknight signifer prestige class, you may cross the boon off your Chronicle sheet to freely retrain your feats, disciplines, cavalier order, and spells, but only into legal options presented in Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Path of the Hellknight.

Emphasis mine.

So what does this mean for Core characters? I assume they're limited to options from each prestige class's orignal publication (ISWG and PoP), as opposed to Path of the Hellknight, but once they retrain, can they continue taking levels in Hellknight / Signifier?

Sczarni 1/5

1. I used a line of Hellknights for the first two battles. It helped them understand the battlefield better. The battleline at the top of the scree worked great with the added miniatures: some PCs used the first round to begin walking around the Hellknights, while others held their actions. They were spread thin and not readily available to flank, and the meat shields were out of place for the initial attack.

2. Yes. The PCs start on the southern part of the map, with Hellknights behind them. I placed them on the farthest edge. The players are facing the fork in the road. To the right is the road to the temple, while the left is direction the Hellknights are travelling.

Spoiler:
Do not forget the random attack from one of the fleeing orcs. The PCs started diplomacy right away, instead of securing the prisoners. So, the orc launched himself at the nearest PC with devastating effect.

3. I let people with linguistics or abyssal read the runes, but asked if they were interested in knowing what was written. They detected magic on the rune and read it anyway. The Perception check was used to try a last effort to avoid completing the reading of the rune.

4. The fractured ground has no significance, just there for asthetics.

5. I placed Olgrahk on the map as marked not read.

Spoiler:
I also used the orcs to immediately attack the pillars, while Gorthek and the guardian kept them busy. They knocked down 8 pillars before the party won.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Developer

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Forty2 wrote:

I have a question about the Chronicle in the Core Campaign:

** spoiler omitted **

Chronicle Question:
That boon does not grant access to any of the options it references as if they were in additional resources, so a PC cannot retrain unless he has another source that grants him access to those prestige classes or options from Path of the Hellknight.
3/5 5/5 *

Linda Zayas-Palmer wrote:
Forty2 wrote:

I have a question about the Chronicle in the Core Campaign:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
I feel like you only answered half his question, though. Which I'm wondering about the second half. Does this boon permit core characters to utilize it? And if so, can they take further levels in the class as they gain experience?
4/5

Linda Zayas-Palmer wrote:
Forty2 wrote:

I have a question about the Chronicle in the Core Campaign:

Spoiler:
Hellknight's Respect wrote:


You set aside your initial Pathfinder mission to help the Hellknights of the Order of the Gate defeat a great force of chaos and evil. In recognition of your deeds, the Hellknights assist you in joining their ranks, or in refocusing your training if you are already a member of a Hellknight order. You may cross this boon off your Chronicle sheet to retrain levels into the Hellknight prestige class (Pathfinder Campaign Setting: The Inner Sea World Guide 278) or the Hellknight signifer prestige class (Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Paths of Prestige 28), for free so long as you would qualify for the prestige classes with the levels that you have taken in other classes. Specifically, the levels you take before the prestige class must qualify you for the prestige class, so you could not retrain a character into a Hellknight 8 with no other class levels. You may also freely retrain as many feats and skill ranks as is necessary in order to qualify for the prestige class. If you already have one or more levels in the Hellknight or Hellknight signifer prestige class, you may cross the boon off your Chronicle sheet to freely retrain your feats, disciplines, cavalier order, and spells, but only into legal options presented in Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Path of the Hellknight.

Emphasis mine.

So what does this mean for Core characters? I assume they're limited to options from each prestige class's orignal publication (ISWG and PoP), as opposed to Path of the Hellknight, but once they retrain, can they continue taking levels in Hellknight / Signifier?

Chronicle Question:
That boon does not grant access to any of the options it references as if they were in additional resources, so a PC cannot retrain unless he has another source that grants him access to those prestige classes or options from Path of the Hellknight.

Chronicle Spoilers:
Is this the new ruling going forward? I had a Hellknight planned for use with this boon in CORE. This is not consistent with another boon thought to be available in CORE (Which I think some players have already built characters for). See next spoiler for details.

Call this my plea for letting this be available in CORE, mostly from a narrative and story-award perspective. Both myself and another local player were actually planning on building these (One Hellknight and one Hellknight Signifier)

(Of course, this does raise the question whether Warrior Priest is a legal feat for a Hellknight Signifier to take when retraining in CORE, since it is a prerequisite for Hellknight Signifier)

SPOILERS for #4-26 Waking Rune:
Student of Thassilon wrote:
Through the study of Krune’s sanctum and personal effects, Pathfinder sages have deciphered many of the secrets of Thassilonian magic and how to avoid the sinful excesses that twisted Xin’s magic. When building a new character for Pathfinder Society Organized Play, you may make use of the Thassilonian magic rules on page 17 of Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Magic. As with other rules outside the core assumption, you must provide a legal copy of the book to use this option.

Side note: Any way we can change the title to have the scenario number in front? I always have a hard time finding this GM thread. :p

Silver Crusade 5/5

Andrew, the Waking Rune boon specifically grants access, it amends the AR page for you. The 7-25 boon allows characters to freely retrain into HK or HKS, but does not change the legality of anything for you.

I'm okay with the boon not affecting Core characters. There would end up being extra stuff that would need to be allowed, and the question ends up being where to draw the line. Do we just add Hellknight and Signifer, what about the various orders from the new Hellknight book? We'd have to include Warrior Priest as an allowed feat since it's a prereq to Signifer.

4/5

The verbiage is not clear enough that I would agree with that assessment of language. There's another boon in season 7 that specifically says it unlocks in the additional resources (mentioning it by name), and the Waking Rune boon doesn't specifically say that. Plus, this scenario specifically lists the sources of where to retrain, which is similar to the Waking Rune boon.

SPOILERS for #7-13 Captive in Crystal:
Elemental Saturation (Earth) wrote:

The Lucent Archive is suffused with powerful elemental energy, and long-term exposure can transform a humanoid’s body. Before you begin an adventure, you can expend 20 Prestige Points and check the box that precedes this boon to permanently transform yourself into an oread. In doing so, you must retrain any race-related options associated with your original race (e.g. alternate favored class bonuses, race-specific archetypes, and race-specific spells) at no cost. Any of your equipment resizes to Medium size at no additional cost, and if you lost proficiency with a weapon (such as by losing the dwarven weapon training racial trait), you may sell back the weapon at full price. When creating a new 1st-level PC, you may instead spend 10 Prestige Points and check the box that precedes this boon to create an oread PC.

If any of your PCs possesses the Oread’s Favor boon, halve the Prestige Point cost of using this boon. In order to use either of the above benefits, you must bring a copy of one of the following rulebooks as if the oread were a legal race permitted on the Additional Resources page: Pathfinder RPG Advanced Race Guide, Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 2, or Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Races.

If you are a kineticist, you can select the earth child utility talent (Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Occult Realms 9) as if it appears on the Additional Resources page.

Emphasis mine.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Ran it for a group of friends pre-con(this Saturday! I'm excited). Here's how it went:

We had a tier 5-9 group(conjurer 5, guncavalier 5, swash 5, archaeologist 6), 5 players in all with one out of subtier char(half-elf bloodrager 7) and it was pretty easy.

At the briefing mostly everyone eyeballed the two ladies, not exactly undeserved that! Meeting Karva(who I pronounced "Kar-way" becaused calling the main npc "Hair" is kinda counterproductive to her gravitas) went alright, everyone decided to dislike the Heckcavaliers of course.

First encounter, one mutant: No real problems besides Hover messing with their tactics. The encounter worked good without a map, gave it some dramatic tension and had us forget about that Captive in Crystal encounter with the same darn map. I had Karva name one Heckcavalier to be their minder/wand pusher so before the combat they had a talk about Measure and Chain under a hastily put together tent while the wind howled. It was pretty cool. Particularily thanks to his sacrifice later.

Second encounter and oh so many orcs! Got to mention it, I found the map confusing and so did the players. This contributed to the overall feel of a failed encounter as the suicidal orcs, all 4 of them, tried to assault the players frontline by first double moving down the slopes and then dying to full attacks. The sergeant with the bow(why? his dex is 8!) couldn't hit anythings, two orcs were blind from glitterdust thanks to their abysmal Will saves and the only cool part was the party spending their standard actions to help the Hellknights by reading the runes of the off-screen orc force.

Then came the big decision and it was done pretty unanimously and fast to my big surprise. Now deciding what to do with the orcs, that took a while. Some of the players were sure that this was their second PP chance and wouldn't let the others roleplay their characters' hatred of the orcs. It was somewhat distasteful, but I didn't see anyone else get bothered so didn't intervene. They decided to ask the orcs for blood samples and off to the clan hold they went!

Now the bbeg, it went so darn smooth: The only one in any kind of danger was the swashbuckler who took two full attacks from That-Which-Peels-Flesh and the cavalier who ate a charm monster. The fight took a while since they decided to pit the qlippoth and it remained in the pit rather than climbing out. The players were actually somewhat hesitant to use the Hellknight help provided once their minder, mentioned a few paragraphs up, bit the bullet while healing the swashbuckler. Some drama at least!

All in all, it's a good scenario, suffering from some unclear language and bad maps. I want to chastise the decision to include two massive maps that both need to be prepped because of the pick-your-BBEG approach. The Temple map in particular is humongous. Furthermore, not including starting areas on combat maps is a big mistake. There's a lot of room for error and ensuing character death when not assigning a starting zone for PCs. For instance, during the Sigils of Sin encounter, the area picked can make or break the battle. Get the players next to the horde and it's several 6d6 explosions on their face pretty soon, get them downslope and the battle is pretty much decided on their favor from the start, as happened with my run.

Anyway, looking forward to running this in a con environment. Thankfully MaryLeathert borrowed me a big Chessex mat AND draw both of the boss maps! What a pal.

Liberty's Edge 4/5

PS. Damn is that temple combat encounter cool or what? Gonna have a field day with my Wings of Air slayer.(this character)

Dark Archive 4/5 5/5

Which sections are considered A2, A3, and B2? They're all pertinent to Secondary Success but aren't clearly marked in the scenario. As they all involve death of Hellknights, right now I'm assuming the following:

A2: The rockslide
A3: Cythnigot Horde combat
B2: Sigils of Sin combat

Yet the scenario reads like the rockslide would actually be A1, Cythnigot combat A2, and Sigils combat B1.

Also regarding the rockslide, it says if the PCs choose to wait out the storm proceed to A3 first. Does that mean have them encounter the Cythnigot Horde from the base of the hill, then have the PCs attempt the climb once the combat is over? It seems to imply this in the initial text for the Cythnigot encounter, which mentions starting the combat at base of the hill rather then up top based on the PCs current location.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

/Avoiding all the potential spoilers

Would this be a suitable adventure for a player with a Hellknight who by coincidence happens to BE an Order of the Gate member?

5/5 *****

Yes. Sadly both of mine were well out of tier.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

Thanks for that :)

And sorry to hear that!

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Angelo "Deepwell" Martinez wrote:

Which sections are considered A2, A3, and B2? They're all pertinent to Secondary Success but aren't clearly marked in the scenario. As they all involve death of Hellknights, right now I'm assuming the following:

A2: The rockslide
A3: Cythnigot Horde combat
B2: Sigils of Sin combat

Yet the scenario reads like the rockslide would actually be A1, Cythnigot combat A2, and Sigils combat B1.

Also regarding the rockslide, it says if the PCs choose to wait out the storm proceed to A3 first. Does that mean have them encounter the Cythnigot Horde from the base of the hill, then have the PCs attempt the climb once the combat is over? It seems to imply this in the initial text for the Cythnigot encounter, which mentions starting the combat at base of the hill rather then up top based on the PCs current location.

I had mey players just skip the hazard once the weather was past.

As for ya initial Q, I figured they'd forgot to label the encounters and we were meant to check those ones where the writeup mentions Hellknight casualties.

Dark Archive 4/5 5/5

Muser wrote:
Angelo "Deepwell" Martinez wrote:

Which sections are considered A2, A3, and B2? They're all pertinent to Secondary Success but aren't clearly marked in the scenario. As they all involve death of Hellknights, right now I'm assuming the following:

A2: The rockslide
A3: Cythnigot Horde combat
B2: Sigils of Sin combat

Yet the scenario reads like the rockslide would actually be A1, Cythnigot combat A2, and Sigils combat B1.

Also regarding the rockslide, it says if the PCs choose to wait out the storm proceed to A3 first. Does that mean have them encounter the Cythnigot Horde from the base of the hill, then have the PCs attempt the climb once the combat is over? It seems to imply this in the initial text for the Cythnigot encounter, which mentions starting the combat at base of the hill rather then up top based on the PCs current location.

I had mey players just skip the hazard once the weather was past.

As for ya initial Q, I figured they'd forgot to label the encounters and we were meant to check those ones where the writeup mentions Hellknight casualties.

Thanks Muser! I ran it last night with a table of 5 playing up with the 4-person adjustment, and I went with what I originally posted. They lost out on their 2nd PP because a Hellknight died during the Orc combat (B2?) as it took them almost 5 rounds to defeat the orcs. I kinda feel bad about it since I don't think I impressed on them enough the harshness of the Hellknight battle going on behind them (which is stated in the scenario), so none of the PCs bothered to help the Hellknights out. I never even told them they COULD help the Hellknights if they wanted. I want to help my players succeed, but I don't want to always throw a bunch of breadcrumbs either. Should I have throw that option out to them during the combat? It only took 1 Hellknight to lose that PP.

Silver Crusade 5/5

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Angelo, I would have spelled out that the PC's had the option to help out the HK's. I did the same thing you did, I decided that since I forgot to mention that option I wouldn't penalize them for it. I ended up giving them the option to try to heal the downed HK in my combat, which they took.

Dark Archive 4/5 5/5

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Mitch Mutrux wrote:

Angelo, I would have spelled out that the PC's had the option to help out the HK's. I did the same thing you did, I decided that since I forgot to mention that option I wouldn't penalize them for it. I ended up giving them the option to try to heal the downed HK in my combat, which they took.

Thanks, Mitch. I should have done the same. I'm giving the PCs their 2nd PP due to my oversight.

Sovereign Court 1/5

So, questions:

The scenario starts off with the HellKnights requiring a diplomacy check to keep them from going off doing their own trail blazing.
Then at the end of the scenario, they talk about how they will not split the party to hit two targets, as breaking ranks is bad.
1. Where is the consistency with their perspectives?

By 5th level we had 3 party members that could fly, ferry everyone across/over the terrain, bypassing everything entirely.
2. Is climb checks and rope really needed?

The Barbarian in our group, literally couldn't read - yet when he charged the Orcs, the mechanics had him setting off every Rune.
3. Shouldn't this be taken into consideration? its not an onsight explosion, its when read.
4. if the intent is to be onsight, then why aren't the Orcs subjectable to setting off each of their own Runes?
5. Does this mean this is a viable PFS tactic? Can my character run around every scenario with this attack, since it was set here as a precedence?

Our party didn't save the structure, but instead tried to travel to it after the other encounter.
6. What stops a party from using make whole or mend on the pillars to then get the rubbings? Essentially, achieving both objectives.

The BBEG use of charm -
7. Why does everyone keep using this spell as a dominate or kill the whole party spell?
Its charm. meaning that target is now friends with both the party and the boss. The target does not instantly turn evil and kill everyone around them.

Silver Crusade 5/5

Best I can say:

1. They aren't really just going off trailblazing on their own. Karva sees the risk of camping in an open and hard to defend are to be greater than the risk of pressing on. If the PC's don't identify the rockslide or convince her to make camp, she presses on. The threat of the taint of chaos is too important to delay, without good reason.

2. If the party has a way to bypass the climbing part, then I would just go right to encounter A3 and not worry about the climb checks or the rockslide. When I ran this the party didn't have those capabilities, but if a party does and they're willing to expend resources to bypass the threat, that's acceptable.

3. I'm not aware of any illiterate barbarian archetypes off the top of my head. There was the True Primitive, but it's no longer legal. But, if there is a legal illiterate archetype, I wouldn't have them trigger the explosion.

4. Since they are aware of the sin carvings, I would say not.

5. That's pretty iffy. PFS scenarios sometimes get access to feats/archetypes/tactics not normally available to everyone. If it were at my table, if the person were willing to take the damage I would probably let them, but I would also have enemies react accordingly once they saw it used the first time.

6. I think that mending/make whole requires the remnants of what was destroyed, and the with the collapse of the temple I don't think it would be possible. Additionally, the pillars are too heavy for mending, and might be sufficiently large that even make whole probably would not suffice.

7. Charm person/monster might not let them turn a PC against the others (MAYBE if it makes the opposed charisma check), but it can function to take someone out of the fight. If they're charmed they're not attacking TWPF, even if they aren't attacking other PC's

4/5

I see that early in the scenario, Karva says that “It is best not to jump into the middle of a chaos-tainted area with limited knowledge of what lies ahead. We will be better served by entering the region cautiously.” If the party attempts to teleport directly from one boss fight choice to the other one to try to achieve both goals, what ends up happening? Is there an increased chance of teleport mishaps, or does the chaos taint prevent it entirely? Asking because I could see some wise*** L9 wizard or arcanist giving this a shot.

Dark Archive 4/5 5/5

I'm pretty sure it is mechanically doable to teleport everyone at the high tier. And while the intent of the scenario was to make people chose, I'm also pretty sure that to be able to do all of the teleporting required would involve some scrolls to do it plausibly within the time constraints, and the wizard not using any of his highest slots for offense of defensive spells. Which strikes me as a pretty big handicap for a scenario that would also now feature an extra combat if serious intensity. In short I think it should be rewarded since it involves some creative thinking and other kinds of sacrifice.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Developer

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RealAlchemy wrote:
I see that early in the scenario, Karva says that “It is best not to jump into the middle of a chaos-tainted area with limited knowledge of what lies ahead. We will be better served by entering the region cautiously.” If the party attempts to teleport directly from one boss fight choice to the other one to try to achieve both goals, what ends up happening? Is there an increased chance of teleport mishaps, or does the chaos taint prevent it entirely? Asking because I could see some wise*** L9 wizard or arcanist giving this a shot.

Ah, I thought I put that in the scenario. They automatically receive the result of mishap.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

Teleport wrote:
You must have some clear idea of the location and layout of the destination. The clearer your mental image, the more likely the teleportation works. Areas of strong physical or magical energy may make teleportation more hazardous or even impossible.

You're well within your rights as GM to rule that teleportation is impossible because of the chaos taint. (For example, if it's late, you basically finished the adventure, and want to wrap up.)

On the other hand if you're finishing early, the players are spoiling for another fight, and you're in the mood, then you might let this happen. However, that smartypants wizard had better also know some way to scry his target because otherwise he doesn't even meet the "seen once" criterium of Teleport.

Lantern Lodge 5/5

I told my group at GenCon "You might be able to teleport there just in time to get hit by that shockwave you see heading outward." They weren't very interested in finding out whether or not that was a bluff.

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