| HammerJack |
Given the statement that a blind vlakais naturally sightless, and the blinded condition can only be removed by effects that grant sight to a creature with no natural vision, I would assume that simple replacement eyes wouldn't do the trick.
The lowest level item I can think of that could reasonably be expected to do the trick would be the ocucloak processor and ocucloak (level 4 augment, 2200 credits), since it does involve modifying your neural system to accept visual inputs that you wouldn't naturally process. Even the ocucloak processor does not explicitly state that it works for creatures that do not have any natural vision, so attempting to use it in this way would be entirely GM discretion.
I do not know of any item or augment that explicitly states that it would grant sight to a creature with no natural vision.
The level 2 spell Darkvision (both mystic and technomancer), does not require that the target be able to see, but grants the ability to see only out to 60 feet, the same range as the blind vlaka's hearing-based blindsense. Similarly, polymorph might be used to turn, temporarily, into something that can see. In either of these cases, I'd expect table variation again. Some GMs might rule that the vlaka retains the blinded condition, overriding the darkvision gained from the spell, or the low light vision that can be granted be Polymorph 1.
The lowest level and most reliable way to play a vlaka that can see, of course, is to play a vlaka that can see.
| ghostunderasheet |
Well sight is already there in thier head noodles. Its just they were born blind most likely due to eye defects that are/maybe genetic. Since the other 2/3 <or 3/4?> can see or hear. Surgery today can or is starting to correct these mistakes. What if the deafness is as simple as one of them ear bones being missing. Or the optic nerves needing to be reattached. Both of which would seem to be simple things for future space magic medicine to correct. Frankly it would seem lazy to hinder your race on a dying worked cyrcling a dying sun to allow 2/3 or 3/4 of your population to be a drag on resources when your race is trying to survive.
| The Ragi |
Actually...
AA2 page 135
"Vlaka Senses: Vlakas can be born
with one of three possible sets of senses.
Blind: A blind vlaka has
blindsight (hearing) with a range
of 60 feet, blindsight (scent) with a
range of 30 feet, and the blinded condition.
Deaf: A deaf vlaka has blindsight (scent)
with a range of 30 feet, low-light vision,
and the deafened condition.
Hearing and Sighted: A vlaka who
has hearing and sight also has
blindsense (scent) with a range of 30
feet and low -light vision."
| Ravingdork |
I'd rule that you can't correct a natural state of being so easily as that.
It would be broken to have not one, but two forms of blindsight (not blindsense!) and a balancing drawback that could be easily overcome with a 100 credit prosthetic organ.
| ghostunderasheet |
Working to lvl three would still be really hard to do blind. Would make non magical combat hard. Pretty sure deafness would be hard as well.
Robot, Surgeon cr 14 can cure both with a 30 minute surgery. It has +30 to medicine checks on a +40. It takes ten and wins. Have no idea how hard it would be to find one on Adalon station working in one of the many hospitals.
Just because your born blind/deaf does not mean you lack the needed brain parts for those forms of perception. Much like what was argued about here in the forums a while back about any of the pc races that do not have eyes at all. Looking at you knock off hanars. Just because you never were able to use something does not mean you dont have it even though everyone else gets it as base stock in their kit. You just never knew it was there to use.
Maybe i am looking at blindness and deafness as such huge deficiencies. Maybe they're not so bad when you have blindsense and Blindsight on your side.
Sill trying to find how badly deafness and blindness is compared to the Buffs the race gives you.
| HammerJack |
Definitely no.
The vlaka entry is pretty clear that the blindness can't be simply treated like that.
The being said, with the bonus senses, the handicap will only be severe when trying to work in a vacuum.
| HammerJack |
To be clear, I think the main thing you're missing is that things that heal blindness absolutely will not work. The vlaka race explicitly states that only things that would give sight to a totally sightless creature will work for them. Therefore reparative surgery is useless.
| HammerJack |
The sharpwing is from Alien Archive. The ocucloak makes you unflankable. The description of how it works could be interpreted, at some tables, as a way to gain sight.
There are no items that I know of that definitely work to grant sight to the sightless.
I would read the vlaka "naturally sighless" clause as about what doesn't work, not as a statement that gaining permanent sight is possible. That is why I can only point out things that might possibly work, based on GM fiat, or spells like Arcane Eye, that can give visual information, but are not a permanent sense.
| Perpdepog |
I'd rule that you can't correct a natural state of being so easily as that.
It would be broken to have not one, but two forms of blindsight (not blindsense!) and a balancing drawback that could be easily overcome with a 100 credit prosthetic organ.
I think it's fair to let them repair their vision, but if they do so then they'd be treated like one of their race with sight and hearing. Brains work on the principle of use it or lose it, so if someone has normal vision then it seems reasonable that they wouldn't need to devote as much attention to their hearing-based blindsight.
Being blind myself, I've had multiple people trot out the old "80% of your brain's sensory processing goes to vision" chestnut on more than one occasion, and while I have no idea if it's true, it being so widely quoted sounds like a good enough reason to include it into a game about magic where people regularly break the laws of physics.
| ghostunderasheet |
Blindness comes with negatives. does blindsight[hearing/scent] counter the blindness negatives. Because if it does then i have nothing to worry about. That and the line at the end of the blerp.
The vlaka is
naturally sightless, so the blinded condition
can be removed only by effects that grant
sight to creatures with no natural vision.
The vlaka is naturally without
hearing, so the deafened condition can
be removed only by effects that grant
hearing to creatures with no natural
ability to perceive sound.
| HammerJack |
Blindsight
Blindsight is a precise nonvisual sense (or a combination of senses; see page 260) that functions as a more potent version of blindsense. Blindsight operates out to a range specified in the creature’s description.A creature with blindsight typically perceives using a specific sense, which is indicated in parentheses after the blindsight entry in the creature’s statistics. If the indicated sense somehow becomes unusable—say, for example, if a creature that uses scent to perceive through its blindsight loses its sense of smell—the creature loses access entirely to its blindsight. The typical senses through which creatures with blindsight can perceive are emotion, life, scent, sound, thought, and vibration.If you have blindsight and succeed at a Perception check to notice a hidden creature, you are observing the creature. Blindsight negates concealment, displacement, invisibility, magical darkness, and similar effects, though a creature with blindsight still can’t perceive ethereal creatures (see the ethereal jaunt spell on page 354). A creature with blindsight cannot be blinded (see page 273) and is not subject to gaze attacks (see the Starfinder Alien Archive). Blindsight is still limited in many ways compared to normal vision. Blindsight never allows a creature to distinguish color or visual contrast, though it might be able to make out other features depending on the sense. A creature cannot read written text with blindsight, though it could still use tactile communication. Blindsight works underwater and in fog or smoke, but it typically does not work in a vacuum (although this depends on the nature of the sense; for instance, emotion-based blindsight would work in a vacuum).
Based on that definition of blindsight, what negatives do you expect to still be taking with blindsight, except in situations where it can't be used, due to range, lack of atmosphere or other circumstances? You are effectively not blind, as long as you can hear. You just have a limit of 60 ft on your precise sense.
| Ravingdork |
In a lot of cases 60 feet of blindsight is better than having regular vision
indeed, you can all but ignore illusions that don't directly interact with your blindsight. For example, if you have blindsight (scent), an illusion that does not create olfactory sensations simply isn't likely to work on you.
| Tender Tendrils |
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Tender Tendrils wrote:In a lot of cases 60 feet of blindsight is better than having regular visionindeed, you can all but ignore illusions that don't directly interact with your blindsight. For example, if you have hindsight (scent), an illusion that does not create olfactory sensations simply isn't likely to work on you.
hindsight (scent) also has the advantage of being 20/20
Tessariel of El
|
Why is autocorrect even a thing? People spell better without them!
Mobile devices need to recommend word corrections, not change them as you type.
I am reasonably certain that it was created for the purpose of destroying the English language. Best way to screw up communication since the Tower of Babel.
| Ravingdork |
As good? Not a chance. You might get a basic sonar that keeps you from bumping into walls, much like a blind man's cane, but not much else.
If you want something as good as you describe, you're going to need to invest in some high end cybernetics or equivalent tech at a minimum.
| Hiruma Kai |
What technology allows you to listen to a video feed and “see” with equivalent clarity as the camera?
Given that some creatures in the system have hearing as good or better than human sight, what is the equivalent of a video monitor for such a creature? I would think positionally sensitive speakers (i.e. produce different sounds in the upper left, upper right, lower left, lower right, but much finer). Something like sound pixels.
I mean, they'd have every reason to develop such technologies. If a normal human can look at a remote video monitor showing a scene on the other side of a planet, or look at a converted sound spectrum to a plot and identify unique frequencies, why can't blindsight creatures do the same except with their sense of sound and converting the visual image?
As for real life sight to sound, look up vOICe.
Or try this link from 3 years ago: Caltech News on Seeing Sound.
I mean, there has to be some mapping from object position in 3-D space to sound at the listener in the same way there is a mapping from object position in 3-D space to visual representation at the viewer.
As good? Not a chance. You might get a basic sonar that keeps you from bumping into walls, much like a blind man's cane, but not much else.
If you want something as good as you describe, you're going to need to invest in some high end cybernetics or equivalent tech at a minimum.
I don't see why. You can have remote video displays for sighted characters, why is the equivalent for blindsight characters so much more complicated? A bunch of tiny speakers instead of a bunch of tiny LEDs.
I can buy an argument from game balance that you can't do it, but as far technology goes, this is dirt simple. Heck, I know enough to build such a thing. Unfortunately, my hearing isn't that good.
Edit: On further reflection, modern ultrasound technology is exactly the kind of transformation you would want, except in reverse.
| Hiruma Kai |
As far as technology goes there's no reason that all adventures shouldn't be done by drones piloted by the PCs from the safety of their starship if not back at base so...
Actually, the existence of Mechanics and Operative hackers is a good reason not to. :)
But more seriously, I definitely take your point in terms of game balance and fun.
I'm am curious, how much of a handicap would people treat a blind creature with blindsight (sound) though? Would people prevent them performing any Starship crew actions? Or would they assume that their are computer interfaces designed to utilize sound instead of sight and let them act as Pilots, Science Officers, and Gunners using the ship's sensors?
| HammerJack |
I would definitely allow the party's starship to be set up to allow the vlaka to do things in aNY game I ran.
If the party was trying to operate someone else's ship, there might not be any sightless controls set up, unless the party had a bit of time to set them up.
I definitely would not allow a few hundred credits to totally remove their blindness, in the field. I would probably be willing to work out a proximity sensor to sound device to give them at least blindsense, with a limited range, though. Especially before sending them on a planned spacewalk.
| Xenocrat |
I don't see why. You can have remote video displays for sighted characters, why is the equivalent for blindsight characters so much more complicated? A bunch of tiny speakers instead of a bunch of tiny LEDs.
I can buy an argument from game balance that you can't do it, but as far technology goes, this is dirt simple. Heck, I know enough to build such a thing. Unfortunately, my hearing isn't that good.
Edit: On further reflection, modern ultrasound technology is exactly the kind of transformation you would...
If you can't use sound waves to create a video image sharp enough to read braile or discern individual feature and expressions at normal visual range (let alone distinguish color), you haven't replaced sight with sound via technical means.
| Hiruma Kai |
As far as technology goes there's no reason that all adventures shouldn't be done by drones piloted by the PCs from the safety of their starship if not back at base so...
The existence of hacker Mechanics and Operatives is actually a good reason not to do that. :)
But more seriously, I can totally understand it its not allowed from a game balance point of view.
Although, I wonder how people would treat a blindsight (sound) who is blind on a Starship. Would you let them take Piloting actions? Science Officer? Gunner? Engineering? All of these position require interacting with a fair bit of data gathered from sensors (both external and internal), in a very quick way. Presumably some kind of appropriate interface is necessary to let such characters contribute.
| BigNorseWolf |
Although, I wonder how people would treat a blindsight (sound) who is blind on a Starship. Would you let them take Piloting actions? Science Officer? Gunner? Engineering? All of these position require interacting with a fair bit of data gathered from sensors (both external and internal), in a very quick way. Presumably some kind of appropriate interface is necessary to let such characters contribute.
Piloting: Just have them use an orrery with sounds instead of visuals. or tiny model ships. Your ships AI just has to make the will save not to make vroom vroom noises as it plays with model ships.
Science officer: brail.
Engineering: I've put pool filters together in the dark
Gunner: just like one of those sound based baseballs
| Perpdepog |
I think they should be able to fill any roll in a starship crew fairly easily. Engineers, captains, and science officers seem like they'd make the most sense but gunners and pilots are also feasible when you consider that flying a starship or shooting a shipboard weapon are not at all like flying a vehicle on a planet or shooting a firearm. Most of your job is coordinating all your various computing systems to line up your shot, given that it is entirely possible that you can't see your target, even with normal vision. Likewise the weapons you are dealing with in starship combat are either missiles, which you fool by baffling their targeting systems, or direct-fire weapons, which are moving either at the speed of light, or close enough not to make a notable difference in game terms.
| FormerFiend |
I mean, the entry for vlaka specifically points out that they have the tech and magic to "mitigate or remove" their blindness & deafness, they just generally choose not to for cultural reasons. So the technology & magic exists, even if a given gm finds what has been specifically statted up to not meet the criteria of it. Which just means it's on them to come up with what is required.
| BigNorseWolf |
I mean, the entry for vlaka specifically points out that they have the tech and magic to "mitigate or remove" their blindness & deafness, they just generally choose not to for cultural reasons. So the technology & magic exists, even if a given gm finds what has been specifically statted up to not meet the criteria of it. Which just means it's on them to come up with what is required.
You could also be a sighted vlaka that wasn't born that way.
"Dr." Cupi
|
why can't i just buy "Darkvision Capacitors" for 1750 or use the mechanic's exocortex "enhanced senses" mod to have a nice pair of robot eyes?
Hypothetically you could.
To me though, those things are meant to enhance senses that are already there.
I have a character that is a Khizar Xenodruid. Khizar definitely don't have the setup to receive visual stimuli in their...brain? Blindness unanswered is quite hindersome in the SF universe. That said, a standard data jack (lvl 2) coupled with a video camera (lvl 1) seem like a very reasonable workaround. Plus, you have the added benefit of recording everything you "see". Also, you can upgrade the camera eventually to get low-light and darvision out to 60ft, or even the True-Frame camera.